So after many years, following the tragedies of September 11, 2001, and much hard work on our former, and the choices of our present President, and of course the real heroes, our military, they were able to finally locate and kill Osama Bin Laden. Forgive me if I used the word murder in a post, as I was corrected promptly that this was war and self-defense.
The response following this "victory" has amazed me. We all have our opinions of course, but the level of hate, judgment, righteous indignation, offense, glorifying, and name-calling has truly amazed me.
My husband and I are ones who likened our feelings to the Martin Luther King, Jr. quote,
Can we really fight evil with evil?
by Rachel Pinegar DeMille on Wednesday, May 4, 2011 at 6:32am
So much of the cynicism and futilism in the Great Conversation is due to the fact that we rationalize the compromise of principle because we think that justice begins and ends with us. We *have* to torture in order to save lives. We *have* to lie, cheat, and steal in order to provide for our domestic security.
I don't buy it. I just don't!
To my way of thinking (and Abraham Clark agreed), we need the courage to let the bad guys "prevail" on principle when to oppose them "effectively" would be to compromise our core values, and thus become bad guys ourselves.
When we put our faith in true principles, we invite the grace that truly protects and prospers us."
I tend to agree with Rachel. There is nothing honorable and praiseworthy in war, in my opinion. Is it necessary? Yes, sometimes it is. For that matter we are constantly at war with ourselves and the forces of evil in this world. But war usually leaves tragedies and sufferings on both sides. There is always going to be a tyrant, an oppressor - the darkness, as in the quote. One man has been killed, but how many did he train and raise up to his beliefs? I am not naive enough to assume that because one leader is gone, others will not raise up. Be prepared and put your faith in true principles!
I was attacked with this argument in referring to those of us who used the Martin Luther King, Jr. quote: "These are a combination of weak people afraid to anger someone/group that they think is stronger than we mixed with those who feel guilty for their feeling of pride and who feel guilty/ ashamed for being American. Just a pathetic lot."
I have to admit that this statement got me going. I usually prefer to not "chase the snake" or argue with those that are so close-minded. It is good that we have different opinions. It is one of the great things about our country to have the freedom to express them. I find it wonderful when I can debate with other people with differing opinions in a Christlike way, trying not to offend, but to express my views. This helps me to see things in new ways and to ground my beliefs and verbalize them. It helps me to see when I've been wrong and to repent. It helps me to know what it is I really do believe. I do not like those who choose to force others to their viewpoints, with no regard for their opinions or feelings, and openly insult them in such a way as the quote above. Did this person go and ask each individual who posted the Luther quote why they did so, what their feelings were? Did they try to understand what the words and communication really meant to the individuals? In a book I'm reading, called Verbal Judo, the author states that, "People hardly ever say what they mean. If you react to what they say, you make a mistake. People under the influence of liquor, drugs, rage, fear, anxiety, ignorance, stupidity, or bias, don't mean anything they say." I tend to think that this is why there is so much outrage, insult, and in general misunderstandings going on with the Osama Bin Laden's death. When I first read that above statement I was extremely offended. I said, WHAT??!!, you've got to be kidding. I am not a weak person and anyone who knows me has probably been the recipient of hearing one of my strongly opinionated diatribes in which I could have cared less about whether I angered you or not, I am not feeling guilty about some pride I might have in the successful completion of a goal our military had in the war, and I certainly am NOT ashamed to be an American! Maybe what that person was trying to say was, "Hey, I'm feeling really awesome that we finally got the bad guy! I knew we could do it! Our military is awesome! You there that are spouting not rejoicing in his death are really putting a damper on my good feelings and making me feel guilty for what I feel is justified. Stop it!" Okay. I hear you. I know where you're coming from. I respect your opinion. I get it. We all deal with things differently. Your way is not all wrong and neither is mine. I AM happy to see righteousness prevail but I also am not going to compromise my core values and become a bad guy myself. If that, in your opinion makes me a weak individual, then so be it. Don't get me wrong, if ever I had to defend my family against an evil like Osama, I most certainly would, and for that matter DO in my own way, but if the Lord were to tell me like Nephi to slay a man for the good of others being greater than the one, after doing so, I still wouldn't find joy in taking a life.
I don't buy it. I just don't!
To my way of thinking (and Abraham Clark agreed), we need the courage to let the bad guys "prevail" on principle when to oppose them "effectively" would be to compromise our core values, and thus become bad guys ourselves.
When we put our faith in true principles, we invite the grace that truly protects and prospers us."
I tend to agree with Rachel. There is nothing honorable and praiseworthy in war, in my opinion. Is it necessary? Yes, sometimes it is. For that matter we are constantly at war with ourselves and the forces of evil in this world. But war usually leaves tragedies and sufferings on both sides. There is always going to be a tyrant, an oppressor - the darkness, as in the quote. One man has been killed, but how many did he train and raise up to his beliefs? I am not naive enough to assume that because one leader is gone, others will not raise up. Be prepared and put your faith in true principles!
I was attacked with this argument in referring to those of us who used the Martin Luther King, Jr. quote: "These are a combination of weak people afraid to anger someone/group that they think is stronger than we mixed with those who feel guilty for their feeling of pride and who feel guilty/ ashamed for being American. Just a pathetic lot."
I have to admit that this statement got me going. I usually prefer to not "chase the snake" or argue with those that are so close-minded. It is good that we have different opinions. It is one of the great things about our country to have the freedom to express them. I find it wonderful when I can debate with other people with differing opinions in a Christlike way, trying not to offend, but to express my views. This helps me to see things in new ways and to ground my beliefs and verbalize them. It helps me to see when I've been wrong and to repent. It helps me to know what it is I really do believe. I do not like those who choose to force others to their viewpoints, with no regard for their opinions or feelings, and openly insult them in such a way as the quote above. Did this person go and ask each individual who posted the Luther quote why they did so, what their feelings were? Did they try to understand what the words and communication really meant to the individuals? In a book I'm reading, called Verbal Judo, the author states that, "People hardly ever say what they mean. If you react to what they say, you make a mistake. People under the influence of liquor, drugs, rage, fear, anxiety, ignorance, stupidity, or bias, don't mean anything they say." I tend to think that this is why there is so much outrage, insult, and in general misunderstandings going on with the Osama Bin Laden's death. When I first read that above statement I was extremely offended. I said, WHAT??!!, you've got to be kidding. I am not a weak person and anyone who knows me has probably been the recipient of hearing one of my strongly opinionated diatribes in which I could have cared less about whether I angered you or not, I am not feeling guilty about some pride I might have in the successful completion of a goal our military had in the war, and I certainly am NOT ashamed to be an American! Maybe what that person was trying to say was, "Hey, I'm feeling really awesome that we finally got the bad guy! I knew we could do it! Our military is awesome! You there that are spouting not rejoicing in his death are really putting a damper on my good feelings and making me feel guilty for what I feel is justified. Stop it!" Okay. I hear you. I know where you're coming from. I respect your opinion. I get it. We all deal with things differently. Your way is not all wrong and neither is mine. I AM happy to see righteousness prevail but I also am not going to compromise my core values and become a bad guy myself. If that, in your opinion makes me a weak individual, then so be it. Don't get me wrong, if ever I had to defend my family against an evil like Osama, I most certainly would, and for that matter DO in my own way, but if the Lord were to tell me like Nephi to slay a man for the good of others being greater than the one, after doing so, I still wouldn't find joy in taking a life.
I whole heartedly agree with you Didi. Tom and I have felt the same sentiments over the past couple of days. I think we can feel a quiet relief over Osama's demise, but I don't feel it is necessery to cheer from the rooftops and dance in the streets over someone's death. While reading in the Book of Mormon yesterday, I came across these verses of scripture, which helped me understand what is appropriate behavior in this circumstance. 3 Nephi 4:28-33 Their crying, singing and rejoicing was in worshipping the Lord because of the gratitude in their hearts, not from "celebrating death".
ReplyDeleteThank you Callie. That scripture is perfect for what I'm feeling! It hits it right on the nail for many things that have been bothering me about this. The praise and glory should not go to any one man or any one military or in rejoicing over the death of an evil man, but the praise should go to God! It is only because of Him that any of us are able to triumph over evil. Hugs and Love you! :)
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